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Resides in Boyden, IA. So as I said in an answer before, companies do business decisions, not just choose this or that framework because is fast.

So please, don't blame the number of servers on symfony, because while yes is heavier than plain PHP code, is not the reason why we use so many.

If not then why do you use PHP? Alvaro, i'm in no way questioning your infrastructure since you know it better than anybody else here, especially some of those 'armchair system architects.

Thanks for you insights. I agree with you. Is not that you go and throw money at hardware, there should be an equilibrium.

We also try to improve our code when we can, i. We are working on a lightweight solution for SQL queries, which according to our benchmarks will reduce quite a lot of load from the site since we can remove the ORM that we use, which is quite heavy.

Our site is evolving and we are learning from our mistakes as everyone should do. Regarding the load average statement, I said that because for some commenters it look like we have 28 completely overloaded machines.

Besides that we have those machines in place because we are planning for future growth, by future we mean imminent if everything goes as planned.

About APC vs. We have to ponder more that. Sometime we discuss the same as what you just said. I have no experience related to that to give an opinion.

Also APC cache is not shared, we have to ponder if that is a problem too. We do cache several computations into APC too.

Thanks for a great article! I have one question about your nginx and memcached. You wrote that many requests doesn't even hit PHP, because Nginx gets the cached content from memcached - can you describe it a little bit more?

Do you cache HTML pages? Erlyvideo is developed very rapidly. Several months ago you could see previous generation of it, that couldn't do anything.

So, if you are interested, better to communicate via email. Alvaro, I think you should try Erlyvideo - it's wrotten in Erlang, and it develops very fast.

What I found most interesting is how they manage to sucessfully blend a little of the old with a little of the new.

No, they didn't manage to successfully blend old and new. It's nearly never really fast, also every few weeks extra slow for at least a few hours, often for weeks.

The current slow-period is on since about 6 weeks, and still no end in sight. The performance of poppen. Far away from being successful Notify me of follow-up comments via email.

Explain the Cloud Like I'm All Time Favorites. Real Life Architectures. Support in Patreon. Start Here. All Posts.

Amazon Store. Recent Posts. Apr 12 What is Poppen. The Stats 2. Write private messages to each other.

Upload pictures and videos. Have friends. Video Chat. Much more… If they want to send unlimited messages or have unlimited picture uploads then they can pay for different kinds of membership according to their needs.

Toolbox Nginx All our site is served via Nginx. Memcached We use Memcached heavily. Graphite We use Graphite to collect real time information and statistics from the website.

Red5 Our site also serves video to the users. Tsung Tsung is a distributed benchmarking tool written in Erlang. Lessons Learned While Buzz Oriented Development is cool, look for tools with an important community behind them.

Documentation and a good community are invaluable when there are problems to solve, or when you need to incorporate people to your team. CouchDB and RabbitMQ also have good support from their developers, with active mailing list where questions are answered in time.

We learned a lot from symfony. Where it could be tweaked and what could be improved. Another example is Nginx, several problems that we had were already solved by the Nginx community, like what we explained about the image storage cache.

Extend the tools. If they are working well there's no need to introduce new software into the current stack. We have written several Nginx modules that have even been tested by the Nginx community.

In this way you contribute back. D on't be conservative with what doesn't matter. Graphite seemed to be a cool tool for running in production, but there wasn't so many reports about it.

We just had to give it a try. If it hadn't worked, we could have just disabled it. Nobody will cry if we couldn't get a nice graph of Unix Load in our systems.

Today even our Product Managers love it. Learn to interpret those metrics. Create tools that let you react to problems as fast as possible.

If you have to rollback a deployment, you don't want to spend more than a second doing that. Create tools that let you profile the site live.

In the lab most tests give optimistic information, but then fail to cope with production load. The Future Build a new more scalable Message System, since the current version is quite old and wasn't designed for such an amount of messages.

Move more and more processing tasks to the queue system. Add more Erlang applications to our system.

We are looking for a replacement for Red5, probably the Oneteam Media Server which is written in Erlang. While at the moment we are using open source Erlang products, we may start writing our own applications with the language because now we have experience with it.

Improve our log visualization tools. Reader Comments 21 Let's do the math. I know of sites that serve this number of requests with PHP using servers.

This means that we will have concurrent updates to the users table, to store the user last login time No that does not mean you have concurrent updates.

April 12, frost. April 12, paul p. April 12, Richard. April 12, Silas. April 12, Alvaro. April 12, Max Lapshin.

April 12, Abhishek. Alvaro: So if they don't even hit PHP then I'm even more correct in that you have either too slow scripts are too many processes.

Abhishek: He did not say one partition per user, he said partition by user id. April 12, Maxim R. Alvaro, Great post.

Regards, niklas. Each PHP process consumes jobs and then dies and respawns again. We do that to avoid any kind of garbage collection problems with PHP.

In the future we may increase the number of jobs consumed per session in order to improve the performance, since respawing a PHP process proved to be quite CPU intensive.

This system lets us improve the resource management. For example during peak time we can even have logins per minute. This means that we will have concurrent updates to the users table, to store the user last login time.

Because now we enqueue those queries, we can run each of them sequentially instead. If we need more processing speed we can add more consumers to the queue, even joining machines to the cluster, without the need of modifying any configuration or deploying any new code.

To store the logs we run CouchDB in one machine. It proved to be useful to detect where the problem is. Before having CouchDB as a log aggregator, we had to login and tail -f in each of the PHP machines and from there try to find where the problem was.

Now we relay all the logs to the queue, and then a consumer inserts them into CouchDB. In this way we can check for problems at a centralized place.

We use Graphite to collect real time information and statistics from the website. The Graphite server is getting around update operations per minute.

This tool has proven to be really useful to see what's going on in the site. It's simple text protocol and the graphing capabilities make it easy to use and nearly plug and play to any system that we want to monitor.

One cool thing that we did with Graphite was monitoring two versions of the site running at the same time. Last January we deployed our code backed by a new version of the symfony framework.

This meant that we will probably encounter performance regressions. We were able to run one version of the site in half of the servers while the new version was running in the others.

Then in Graphite we created Unix load graphs for each half and then compared them live. Since we found that the Unix load of the new version was higher, we launched the XHProf profiler and compared both versions.

We have a separate server where we send the XHProf profiles and from there we aggregate them and analyze them to find where the problems are.

Our site also serves video to the users. We have two kinds of them. One are videos from the user profiles which are movies produced and uploaded by the users.

Also we have a Video Chat to let our users interact and share their videos. On mid we were streaming 17TB of video per month to our users.

Tsung is a distributed benchmarking tool written in Erlang. We have a tool to record traffic to the main MySQL server and convert that traffic to Tsung benchmarking sessions.

Then we replayed back that traffic and hit the machines in our lab with thousands of concurrent users generated by Tsung.

The cool thing is that we could produce test scenarios that look closer to what's happening in the real production environment.

I'd like to thanks Alvaro Videla for this excellent write up. If you would like to share the architecture for your fablous system, please contact me and we'll get started.

Let's do the math. They have 28 PHP boxes with processes each. You need as many PHP processes as you need to be able to handle concurrent requests not per second.

That means either their scripts take 1 second to execute each or they have way to many processes. Either way something is broken.

Quote: This system lets us improve the resource management. No that does not mean you have concurrent updates.

Most of the time a lot less. Also note they have 50 memcached nodes. How many servers do they have to handle this moderate amount of load?

It's insane. Conclusion: not impressive and I have not seen any new insights. I question the efficience of their code a lot.

Hi Alvaro, thanks for that interesting insight in your architecture. Can you provide a link to Graphite? It sounds interesting, and we're beginning to look at those systems, but its such a common word that simple Googles aren't coming up with anything that I think is correct.

Not How many partials components do they show? Is the site information completely dynamic? And the list of questions can go on.

Besides that we keep the load avg on the quite low and we have enough servers for our planned growth.

Besides that when you build a website you have to do business decisions. Is not like you pick your best book about website programming theory.

In our case, we use a Framework and an ORM. That let us develop quite fast. You have to take that into account too. I've learned that is hard to talk about business decisions of other companies without knowing the background behind them.

Regarding the concurrent queries to the database and the login numbers, you are right, I did a mistake on the numbers. I apology to the readers for giving misleading information.

On the other side I hope you and other readers of the site can understand what you can accomplish with a queue server.

If you know that already and you don't need to learn it from me then better for you. I hope this is useful for at least one developer. We have a Who Is Online server that tracks the online users.

It uses a timeout for it to mark them as logged out. We use several Memcached nodes because we have specialized buckets depending on what we want to cache.

For example we have view cache, to cache templates. Function cache, to cache queries to the database. Then One Memcached to specifically cache queries to one table, etc.

In that way the usage of one memcached doesn't affect the others. Hi, Alvaro. I want to introduce you a better streaming server: erlyvideo , it is worthy to test, how many users it will handle in your situation for me it can serve connections from one machine.

I am not very familiar with Mysql but the one on which I work on recommends that we don't create more than partitions.

So if they don't even hit PHP then I'm even more correct in that you have either too slow scripts are too many processes.

But that's not really a problem. The sites I am talking about have a lot of dynamic content but very clever caching plus they don't use any framework or ORM wrappers.

Granted you get some advantage in terms of development time but once you reach a certain size, you will whish you didn't go that route.

It's not that hard to code some classes for your objects which use more intelligent queries and caching. You have 2. And please, don't use "requests per minute", nobody with interest in scale uses this term.

It's mostly "requests per second" and suddenly your numbers don't seem so big anymore because it's only one 60th.

He did not say one partition per user, he said partition by user id. That does not suggest anything about partition size. It can be users or 1 million users per partition.

It only tells you what key is used to decide in which partition a value is stored. Also that does not have anything to do with MySQL per se.

The what one you work on? Also partitions? Yea right.. Great post. I think it was interesting to read and see how you solved many of your issues.

Also nice tip regarding graphite.

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